Cameras "shaking" in VMS Hard to pin down? Random occurance.
Answered
I'm touching on this to see if this is a known issue.
I spoke to a Hanwah rep who said he and some of his team were aware of it, and I've seen it 1st hand on DW spectrum on systems I've built.
This was first pointed out to me by a customer who asked why some cameras on a new install were shaking.
I had seen the issue previously one time and the cameras were mounted near water pumps, so I thought the walls were shaking because of the machinery. Now I question that assumption.
When the issue happens, the camera frame will jump a bit. I don't recall if it's up/down/side/side, but the frame "shakes".
I've seen it on UNV cameras and Axis cameras. And anecdotally on some Hanwah cameras.
This was in the client software as I recall, but unsure if it replicates in the Phone apps.
I did bring up a stream from the web interface of the UNV cameras I have seen this happening.. the web live view did not shake, but DW software showed a shaking.
Same with a VLC media stream. Solid, but DW was shaky.
The issue seems to happen without reason or for any length of time. The customer later stopped complaining, but I'm unsure if the issue ever really went away..
I wonder it this might have any relation to my other issue of cameras flipping to MJPG from H.265.
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Hi Matt Barber,
We are not able to start the investigation base on the information you posted. please follow the below instructions and provide the related information for us:
1. Check the firmware version of Nx Witness and the camera.
Similar to your other post, please make sure the Nx Server and cameras are running on the latest version.
The latest Nx Witness version is 4.2.0, if your Nx Witness is running the latest version, you could first try to update the Nx Witness to the latest release.
Check: https://my.networkoptix.com/#/download2. Detailed information of the issue
How often and how long will the issue occur?
How does the frame jump?
Do you have any screenshot or screen recording can share with us for understanding the issue?
Do you find any steps to replicate the issue?
The more details you provide, the more we can understand the issue.3. Disable the optimization
Please try to disable the optimization for the camera, then set the camera as desired on the setting page of the camera.
Please note that you can disable the optimization on the individual camera by opening Camera Settings and go to Expert tab, check the Keep camera stream and profile settings.4. Provide the RTSP and HTTP port forward
We would like to investigate the issue by direct accessing your camera from our local Nx Server.
If you agree to provide direct access for us, I will convert this post into our ticket system for you to provide sensitive information.We are not able to identify whether this issue is related to your other post so far, we will see are there any relation between when gathering more information.
Thank you.
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Hi Matt Barber,
Just checking in to make sure you received our response as it has been a while since we have heard from you. Please let us know if you still need help by responding to this post. We are eager to resolve your question as soon as possible.
Thank you. -
Ahoy, Trying to get a video of the issue. This instance is a new install.. and I'm trying to make sure it's not actually shaking.... it's in a parking garage..
Optmization is off. This camera only connects and provides a single stream via ONVIF connection for some reason.. When trying to manually add rtsp for primary/2ndary it throws grey images on the screen occasionally. If I only go with primary stream it seems fine. UNV brand camera.
4.2.0.32842 is version
I won't be able to fwd the rtsp stream from this location unfortunately.
I have a screen recording of an incident this am that I uploaded to my sharefile account. Link is here.
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Hi Matt Barber,
I am afraid we are not able to give any conclusion from the information and the screen recording you sent. The camera records from the top of the driveway, it is probably installed on the overhead structure, so we can not exclude the possibility that the camera is under slight vibrating.
In general, the Nx Server receives and records the stream from the camera without altering it. Since the camera forwarding is not available, could you help to play the live stream on VLC and the Nx simultaneously, and provide the screen recording when the issue occurs? (Please make sure the screen recording covers both windows of Nx and VLC.)
Furthermore, does the issue exist on other cameras? Which we can have direct access to it for investigation?
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I understand you are not able to do much with the info provided. I will keep an eye on this and other cameras for the issue to arise.
I have spoken with a sales rep @ Hanwah who noted that they have seen the camera shaking issue as well, but that it was hard to pin down and demonstrate the problem in a repeatable fashion.
I have seen this issue on several cameras. The issue is not easy to replicate. I will work on getting video of the issue with a feed from VLC as a comparison.
I mostly am able to see it in playback due to motion detection triggering. So it will be hard to do it live with VLC at the same time.
Once I get to that point, I can see about sharing the camera with you.
Out of curiosity.. is this the 1st time anyone has raised the issue of "shaking" video on this platform? Or has it been raised and not processed/resolved?
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Hi Matt Barber,
To be honest, this is completely new for me in relation to Nx Witness.
Such behavior is pretty common in coaxial based analog systems and were caused due to a ground loop.
As my colleague mentioned, movement of the construction looks similar, but in general is more noticeable on camera that have been zoomed in a lot, which seems not to be the case in this project.
That being said, I have seen this behavior in a project once before I worked for Nx happening with an IP camera and that was solved by disabling the video output of the camera. Not sure if this camera has a (analog) video output, but it might be worthwhile to disable it if it was enabled.
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Hello Norman-Nx-Support,
I have seen this "shaking" behavior in the past, mainly while doing demonstrations or setups in my PC.
I mostly ignored it, and it has not happened to me in a long time, however we did receive a complaint from an end-user about this, and I was finally able to make a screen recording about this.
It's not actually the video stream that is shaking, in this specific case, only when I make the camera full screen will it start "shaking" the video window, while the video stream itself is not shaking.
You can download the video here:
https://wetransfer.com/downloads/c57856fa6a92b92af05e49fb149f4c3c20220405120438/68cdd9
It doesn't actually look like shaking, it's more like stretching the image and it feels like it moves more on the top part of the image then on the bottom.
Information about this case:
-> NxWitness version: 4.2.0.32840 and 4.2.0.34125
-> Camera: Uniview (didn't check the model) but I did check the 2 streams had different codec:
-> Stream1: H.265
-> Stream2: H.264The video stream shows absolutely no signs of shaking on direct access by browser, NxWitness App or VLC.
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Hi Matt Barber,
Miguel Câmara also submitted a support ticket for this issue and when there is something worth mentioning here, I'll post it here.
To be honest, besides some mentioning in this community, the issue is unknown and until the video of Miguel Câmara it was unclear for us, what was meant.
Can you tell me more about the Vendor and Model of the cameras you experianced the issue with?
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We've been selling mostly Uniview Cameras. As noted previously, I have heard from our Hanwah sales rep that they were aware of the issue where a cam will shake. At least he had heard about it and had customers point it out to him. So I don't know if it's vendor related.
He could also have been placating me :) So without evidence of the issue it may be a moot point.
We have seen the issue on UNV /UNIVIEW brand cameras and that's the product our business distributes as of now. Models would vary with the times I've seen the issue.
I will keep my eyes out for the issue on the systems we have remote access to. If I can get more details I will provide what I can to see if I can help shed light on the subject.
I wonder if it may be related to flipping between low and high resolution streams on the layout. When a cam auto changes or flickers between high/low quality it looks similar. Or related to keyframe settings.. .....just stuff that I would consider if I knew how to look deeper into the underbelly of the issue.
Thanks,
Matt
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Follow up from my Hanwah guy, Do you have a ticket # I can reference or share?
I think a cross reference they can touch if they want to share any feedback or have any info to share. He put feelers out to see if he can get feedback on the issue.
I hit one of my integrators who replied that they have seen it several times, but not frequently enough to make an issue of it.
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I'm having the same issue on multiple NetworkOptix systems. Our local dealer couldn't solve the issue.
At our office, we experience the same issue. When I open the video stream in Milestone, VLC, HikConnect the image is not shaking. The issue only occurs in NetworkOptix.
I just watched the Nx Operator Certification and notice the same shaking behavior in some of the MP4 video's they show. It's very frustrating that the issue is still present.
Watch their Youtube video: https://youtu.be/8ZSAccqyXJ8?t=616 (10:16)
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Robin Koch just added a new comment to this thread... which I was going to upvote, but I can't find it.
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Hi Robin Koch,
I just approved your message.
Could you help me a bit, to give me a timestamp of when the issue occurred?
It would be awesome if we have this behavior in this video, since it most likely means we can reproduce it, which might help to resolve it.
Also, with which version of Nx do you experience the behavior. The version in the video is quite old (3.2) and a lot happend over tiime.
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Hi Norman,
First, thanks for the quick response. We have the issue since we deployed NetworkOptix at our client. We experience the issue currently at 3 of our clients, which are all running the latest NetworkOptix version.
In the Youtube video provided earlier, the issue appears at 10:16. The shaking is 100% the same as the shaking behavior on our camera's. The issue is not consistent... It just happens suddenly and also stops randomly.
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Hi Matt Barber, Miguel Câmara, and Robin Koch,
We think we were able to reproduce the issue, and our team will investigate it.
Can you perhaps confirm the following?
- Did you use Cell Spacing or were all items against each other?
- Do you experience the issue with or without expanded panels, like the device tree, notification panel, top panel and timeline panel?
Ps. Miguel Câmara can you share the screen recording once more?
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Thanks for the quick reply Robin Koch.
Please, if it occurs, can you make a screen recording and share it with us? -
Ahoy Folks,
Curious if there was any deeper understanding of this issue.
We have a customer with Brick wall mounted cameras shaking recently again.https://ovsusa.sharefile.com/d-sd45728292d6a4972a274804436750c39
I updated from 4.2 DW to 5.0 and at least for now it stopped.
Does anyone know if this has been addressed? I had an integrator tell me they don't want to sell my cameras any more because they see shaking sometimes. I want to be able to point the finger at the right culprit instead of losing business over it.
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I'm getting tired of this problem. It still isn't solved in V5 software. I just gave a presentation to a client at our NX supplier. We ran the V5 build and still saw the shaking behaviour on Dahua, Hikvision and Hanwha.
I see this issue in every NX implementation so far. I really wonder why this problem still exists, since it's totally unacceptable for our clients.
Please solve this issue fast.
Kind regards,
Robin
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I saw this again yesterday, and tried to read thru the thread again..
I didn't update my cell spacing or layout info... I think I typically shrink cell spacing to none on my layouts. So the issue might be related to the way I set up that aspect.
I saw the issue again yesterday on a system yesterday, but didn't note the layout settings.
If there is something you would like me to test out when I see the issue, I'm happy to have something to throw at the problem.
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Hi Matt Barber, Miguel Câmara, Robin Koch,
Our developers created a fix and I have made a private patch.
Feel free to test if this resolves the issue for you.
You can use the 5.0 private_patch I have built by using the following in-client credentials:
Build Number: 35567
Password: p59j1hPLEASE NOTE: This build hasn't been thoroughly tested, so isn't recommended to use this build in a production environment.
After your confirmation, we'll add the fix to the upcoming patch, so you can use it in a production environment as well.
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Hi Matt Barber, Miguel Câmara, Robin Koch,
Did this private patch resolve the issue for you?
Please let us know.
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Unfortunately I have not been able to test this as this particular client has been going through some hardware upgrades on their Nx Servers and the Workstation where this issue was seen.
The workstation was exchanged last week, but we don't have confirmation if the shaking issue still happens or not.
They changed the hardware but kept the Windows with the exact same settings, probably just installed new drivers for the new graphics card.
If the issue disappears, then it was definitely a H/W or resource usage issue... but that will mean we cannot test the patch.
I will update as soon as I have any news.
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I apologize, I have not been able to isolate an issue well enough to apply the build.
Can you clarify if you believe the cell spacing modification I typically use.. of no cell spacing is likely the culprit for the issue?
If so I will try not to use the feature and see if the problem arises further.
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Hi Matt Barber,
The cell spacing wasn't the culprit, but more a workaround.
In fact, they changed the rounding method of the coordinate calculation for each resource in the layout.
When these are values were very close to zero, those values did do affect the resulting coordinates which may be 1 screen pixel more or less, what caused the annoying jitter of the displayed resource. To fix that, we round translation values of the transformation matrix, which are considered very close to their rounded value.
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Hi Matt Barber,
The patch is useful for current issues. For future issue, you can use the upcoming public patch or newer since these will have the fix included with improved testing.
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